I think I've heard...I think I've heard the name. Were you are living in New York before or were you living in Jersey? And you know Marjorie from her writings and...? So that's a nice old picture of the museum, isn't it? Look at the beautiful old buildings on this street. Really, huh? Look at the garden, how different it was. Bits of wood. Far out. Beautiful. It's a beautiful piece, isn't it? Not me. I'm happy here. I love it here. I'm never leaving. Really, I'll never live anywhere else. No I have a tiny apartment but I love it. I love it. Living here is is extraordinary. So let's go let's go look at Nancy's book. Excuse me. We don't know. He's a photographer. He's a photographer. Thank you. I had to tell Marjorie Perloff that. Thank you. I wanted to get that. I wanted to buy that, yeah. This is the one with the Cage in it. It's a great looking book for thirty for thirty yeah. Where? I'm glad you pointed this out. I wanted to buy this. How do we how do we? Who is this on the cover? How do we like? What do you think? Sure. Oh, those guys were in in in in in the band which I have the records of...uh, why do I forget the name? Here, let's have some. Here we go. Do you guys have a music section? Like music books or... Yeah, what would it be? Yeah, that's about it? All right. Thanks. Marjorie, design of musical instruments? I don't think so. Michelle, how you doin'? What's going on? I was thinking about you. Well, I saw I did a users on panix and saw mwhite was on was logged in. My god, more of the same. More of the same. Did Monica's catalog ever come out? What's the story? I heard it was like a book I had dinner with Anton I heard it was like like this. Great. Great. I heard it was huge. What happened to your work? Has it gotten back to you? I don't know. He didn't say anything. Of well, yeah yeah. You did a lot of work on that piece. So, what are you doing here at MOMA? Good. All right. Well, next time I log in can you do talk can you do ytalk or anything? If I do if I do talk mwhite you'll come up? Oh, really, but you're usually on on your moo's and mush's. Did he. Did he move in romantically or? Great. Really, I don't know. Congratulations. That's great. Are you in love? Great. Wow. Oh, I didn't know that. I didn't were you seeing him when we were in Caracas? Really, huh. Congratulations, that's great. What's her name? What's his name, sorry, what's her name? Good good good. John Simon. We're gonna be at adaweb for the party are you gonna show up there? There's a party tonight. You know adaweb, don't you? Big art site. I know, you're out of the artworld I know you're out of the artworld. We're gonna be there tonight. And we're gonna see John and I'll tell him you say hi. She's doing an edition, an edition on the Internet so. I hope that catalog comes out. Anton says it's supposed to be pretty terrific but. Is she traveling the show as long as she's she contacted me about sending her some stuff. Yeah, I don't know I haven't spoken to her since Caracas. All right. Yeah, I don't know I haven't seen her since Caracas. So, really. I haven't heard from her. What do I know? Maybe when things slow down. Yeah, if I hear if I hear from her again. Like I said I don't know where she is. No, I'm not taking it personally, absolutely not. I saw her I had an opening I saw her at the opening. Her and Soowon came. Good to see you. Yeah. Good to see you. Take care. You too. Sure this is terrific. Yeah. Are you buying this? I will grab it. Right. I've got to get this. Hi, Kenneth. Who are you? Hi Margo. You must know you must know my wife Cheryl Donegan. That's great. Where have you shown her work? Great. Great. Great. Yeah yeah exactly. So, so what else did you show in these programs? Did you show younger EAI artists? EAI is Experimental Arts Intermix. Donegan. Marjorie's going to come on Wednesday and see Cheryl's show. It's great. It's great. It's down at the Basilico Gallery. I know Marjorie. I know her well. Gee, why don't you make a studio a studio visit over to Cheryl's? She'd she'd enjoy that. Sure. Did you show any of the work of Alix Pearlstein? She's another good really good. Alix Bag is good too, yeah. I'll have to ask Cheryl. OK, and then and then. In Baltimore. I'll give you her studio number. I know she'd love to hear from you and I'll tell her her. I'll tell you she you know. Great. She is she is at at two one two six seven seven eight four six five. I'll tell her I'll tell her we met tonight. Kenneth Goldsmith. You've gotta you've gotta come see Cheryl's show. Is this a small world or what? No I haven't. See you. Bye Margo. Didn't he trash the Cage book in the Voice? Oh, I don't think it's important but. Cheryl is in here under. My wife is in here under. Somebody I went to school with. I know everybody in here. No, I don't think we should we should look at that. I'm gossip, what? I know it's another language...It happens all the time. It's just one one r. I've got to pay for Nancy's book. So listen, maybe I'll come see you tomorrow. I'd like to hear the lecture. Oh, I'd like to. I mean, it's not have to. Oh I do like her, no, I think they're very good. So. No but's not but's. I think she's great. I don't have any problem with her. So, where are you headed? OK. um, let's see. I'll send you a copy of the 600 page manuscript for Geoff for The Figures. It is great. If you want to do see Cheryl's show. Nice to meet you too. Yeah, I'm gonna pick these things up. And yeah, and I will find find your discs at the station if they're there. We have a lot of stuff. Do you have any vinyl? No no no. Any of your own stuff. OK, let's be in touch. I'll call I have your email address I'll I'll let you know what's going on. Good to meet you David. I'll see you. What did you get? OK, Call Cheryl she'll appreciate that. Bye bye. I'm not a member no. Cher? Hi baby. How ya doin'? Good. Yeah, I'm just in the subway, I'm just coming out of lunch with Marjorie. It was interesting. Um, she wants to come see your show she wants to come see your show. Yeah yeah and um, I ran into a curator who had shown your works in St. Petersburg, Russia. Yeah, and also at the National Gallery of Art in Washington. Uh, I gave I gave you I gave her your number--she's a friend of Marjorie's. Her name is Margo Herman. She was really nice and she really loves your work so. Yeah, it was really great and uh, we met in the bookstore at MOMA and we started talking--she's gonna call you and she really loves your work and blah blah blah. Yeah yeah. So, how ya doin'? Yeah. I had a Marjorie's pretty wild. She's nice, she's really nice. Um, she talks a lot but I I kind of jousted with her a lot. I threw around lots of opinions. Gee, I think my train may be coming. What are you doing? Are you gonna be there? And do what? OK, here comes, I believe my train is coming I'll let you know in half a second. No, it's another E, damn it. Yeah. Great. When does it go up. Really? Whoa. So, you've got to come to adaweb. I know after after the thing. Oh, I was just extremely opinionated, uh, you know it was fun we had a good time. Yeah, I just I was just myself, I was pretty opinionated, pretty wild. We had a great time. Sure, sure. I'll tell you all about it. I'll tell ya what, what time is it? OK, why don't I why don't I wait for you and then you wanna like go to, uh uh... You wanna go down to John Newman's together? Oh, be back what time. Hurry up. OK, I'll see you at my studio around four. Bye. Yeah. I like Cage because we were there with other guy who was like this environmentalist Cageian. Yeah, this guy we we we hung together for a half hour and we were really bummed that this guy was coming to dinner ‘cause we were really really dishing and really having a lot of fun and then I'm like, Marjorie, can we dish like this when this guy is here and she's like, well, I don't know we may have to keep it a little bit quieter. So any it was it was really fun, um, I I'll tell you more, I'm a little buzzed. I had two glasses of wine and a cognac. And she took me out to lunch at MOMA so. The absinthe I didn't have too much of but at any rate what but I do, you know, what I can, you know, she really adores you and adores your work and thinks that you're you're you're due more due more praise so that's cool. Um, and she, let's see your book is coming out from Northwestern? And she said that she voted for that book to happen. You knew that already. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The Wittgenstein book? Right. Right. Well, at any rate, it was pretty fruitful and really nice to meet her and you know, so... Not really, we didn't really talk too much about Douglas. Yeah, you know, it wasn't really a dish session on Douglas. She said that she was at Charles's last night and that and Charles was showing it was more Internet stuff with Charles and, you know, it was, yeah, I will recall it all Bruce. Is the Internet? After what I told you about his big Loss thing so. He was gooing over Loss. Yeah. Yeah yeah . I can't, you know I mean, I'll. Yeah yeah he's he's he really is fascinated by it. Oh, don't ask Marjorie about that. Don't ask Marjorie about that African American poetry. Yeah, a little bit a little bit, but you had warned me so I was I was cautious. Well she's her politics are I was I was paying attention her politics are rough, you know, it really is it's really different. At any rate, I don't know, I mean she talks a lot she gossips a lot I mean what it what it all means I can't quite say, so. Yeah, it was alright, though, it was nice to meet her. I groove with her. I was just a fucking goof, you know. I was just a goof ball on her, you know, yeah so. It was good. It was good. So why don't you guys find out when, you know. Yeah, why well why don't when are you gonna call her? OK, when you guys find out somebody should let me know and cause I would, you know, she's gonna do a big paper at the next MLA on video art and I would really like her to get su, uh, Cheryl's stuff in. OK, she did not like Susan's work at all! I'll tell you that. She really thought Susan Susan's stuff was really bad. Yeah, she just says it's really sad when a couple has to be like that, you know, where he has to be supportive of of somebody whose work is just completely awful and you have to sort of pretend you like it. Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, um, well and and and and in telling you I'm sure it will never get back to him. Absolutely. Absolutely. Alright. So let me know what's up and... I'm gonna go to Fordham tomorrow and listen to her lecture. Yeah I wanna hear her talk, I love her work, you know, I do like her work. Yeah. It's on Beckett and Wittgenstein. It should be alright. Yeah. Beckett and Wittgenstein. She's giving the same lecture. Yeah. So somebody let me know. That was fun last night. I had a good time, man. Uh, quickly? Really. That was great. That was great. Alright. Alright. Let me know. See ya. Yeah? Listen, I got good news for you. Marjorie wants to do a MLA paper on video and she wants to talk to you and see your show. So that'd be nice, huh? Yeah, yeah. She's she's really interested in video what's happening in video now. It's very very good. You wanna get going? So, tell me about your John Simon project. Oh, you want to put on this cream? Alright. I do. Grazie. Grazie. So? Not happening. Can you get that? I had lunch at... Oh. Hey what did you bite for? Oh God. Hay! Oh! Look at the tip of his tail. He loves Bets. Hay! Hay! Come here Hay! Come here, sweetie! Hay! Hay! Come. Hay come. Oh look, he's smelling Bets. Who is it? Do we know her? Look at him drink! Hay! Bad boy! Who's a bad boy? Oh yes. He's completely after Babette. Hay, look what I've got for you! Hay! Sit. Sit down. Good boy. He's so cute. Loves Betsy-girl. Have you killed a cat? Down. Down. Down. Oh, I know that's what you do. You're good. Down. Hay down. Down. Down. Does he roll over? As that as far as he goes? Bets will roll over on her side. Yeah definitely. In order? Everything fine? Everything's fine now? Looks good? Look, I didn't realize that you had done a show with Curtis Cuffie. We love him and I always said to Cheryl... The homeless guy who built the constructions. I told I told you. But he's the guy who does the great things on Cooper Square. You know, it's amazing because I've said to Cheryl, I've always said to Cheryl I've said somebody should give this guy a fucking show, he's so good. Much better. Much better. Much better. It's OK, we're dog friendly here. Because I read the review of that and I was, like, I guess that it was like a review in the New York Observer or something like that... Yeah Jennifer knows all about that Outsider Art she's an... He's brilliant. One more. We like him. We like him. Does he come in and do it? Hay! Look what I've got for you. Dummy. Yeah. Does he buy drugs? Kenny, what happened to the hair on his tail? Awwww. Yeah, we've seen that. We've been there, yeah. Yeah, sure. Yeah, I know. He found some of David's stuff? David's a nice guy. Sit down. Down. Sit. OK, here. Get it! Good boy. Are you going to adaweb tonight? Yeah. Ben Kin oh yeah. At their space. Hay's got major balls, hasn't he? No, he's got testicles! Did you chop them. No, I'm talking about Hay. You never chopped his balls? Balls, yeah. That's what they say about me. So, so how's the traffic at the site. Right, right. Very good. Cool. Cool. Everything's in tact in order, huh? Some reading and stuff. Let me know. I guess Geoff will let me know. What happened. Something about A.G.? What happened, he sold something under you nose? Geoff is? Yeah. That's the artworld for ya. Good thing Cheryl and I never sell anything. We're not involved in the nitty-gritty. Yeah we have nothing to... We never sell anything. OK. Stefano's gallery. A.G. bought A.G. bought eighty works on paper of mine. Eighty. Yeah. Yeah I made eighty drawings a few years ago and he bought the whole suite. Yeah, I wasn't going to break them up either. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We'll go down to John's. We'll go down to John's early. Hay! Good boy! What did you do with your dog when you went away? Did he have fun? He's got such a different nose than Bets, doesn't he? Cheryl? It's so long. Nice tail. We have those too. So, Cheryl I'll see you and we'll go down to John's when we come back. John Newman's having a party at his loft and we're going to adaweb tonight so. The sculptor. Older guy. Good sculptor. Nice guy. He's up at Yale. Another Ivy League guy. Kenny's Kenny's one. OK, listen, be in touch. We'll, of course. And I want to come see you at the Art Hotel. Sure. Sounds good. OK. I'll be here. Bye you guys.