Well, I know I know. We we we talked about that. Yeah. Yeah. Is that right? Really? Hmm, that's good. Oh god, that was a lot to take in. You know, whenever you're with her... Why, walking into this? Oh you... Oh is that right? Oh I haven't... It's been about 12 or 13 years since I have. But it's OK, I'd go out of my way to listen to her. I mean, you know, it's just such good stuff. I love I just love her take. How you doin'? She's good. Um, hum. I have I have. Yeah good. What's your relation to you're not you're long out of school. So in Comp Lit or is this part of Marjorie's part of I mean is this part of what you do when you're in Comp Lit? Wow. Last time I saw you was at the Michael Snow thing. It was pretty nice, wasn't it? Yeah, yeah. The what? Where's Hollis Frampton? Where now? Is he? We don't know. Cheryl and I were asking each other this question. It's a great name but you don't know what, you know, you never hear anything. Yeah. OK. Yeah yeah, it's a great name, it's like Peter Frampton and Hollis Frampton. No... well, also of the age when Peter Frampton came alive. Yeah, me too. I got out in '79. Yeah, so it's perfect. Yeah it's interesting, it's just one of those names where you wonder, you know, Michael Snow's still around some of those great names and you just don't know what happened. Yeah, it's one of those names you see on paper but you don't really see anywhere else. We went the... uh, next night to the Knitting Factory to see Michael Snow's improv thing and that was that was OK. Yes yeah yeah yeah. Yeah. Cool. Well, Cheryl too her being so involved with video it's like an education her studio's like one block away from it. You know, it's temporary, but what isn't, you know? Yeah, hmmm. That's what, you know, that's what happens. That's what happens. Unfortunately I'm paying rent. Cheryl and I are paying rent. Yeah, this sounds like the lecture. This was good. Did you enjoy this? Yeah, I did too. Yeah, yeah, no she's she's... important. Ulla! Ulla! Don't leave. Yeah, if it makes it out. It's being held up, you know. So, it was good to see you. See you around, OK? What are you doing? You want to get a coffee? With, uh, Marjorie? With... ohhh. OK. No no no. That's nice. That's nice. No you should. Um, well listen, you know, let's hang out or something soon, you know? Um, why don't you come down and see Cheryl's show we'll get together. You feeling alright? You look OK, yeah, you look fine. No no no. You look really healthy. Really healthy. Didn't she send you a card. I thought she might have... well, she's in charge of that mailing list. Good. Good. Good. Yeah, so you'll enjoy it. It's very serious and very good work. Um, I'm finished it's being published. The book is being published. Uh, the book, oh my own 600 page is done and it's being released by The Figures this summer and um, there's a big article on it in Art In America this month. In Art In America on the book this month and some visual stuff I've done as well. I'll get it I'll get you a copy of that. Yeah, this current month. OK. Alright, everything's good. I guess we'll just catch up. Give me a call, uh, I'm going to see Xenakis this Sunday which I think should be very good. You know they're interviewing him for at 2:00. You know you know about the show. I think it should be I think it should be really amazing, actually. That was good. That was good. That worked. That worked. Um, so the Xenakis show should be really great. Um, I saw the Ustvolskaya show up at Merkin last Saturday night that Continuum put on. I'm very interested in her work. Tomorrow is the Barton yeah Barton Workshop and I don't think that I'm going to be able to make it, uh, I am just... What opening. OK, I have to be somewhere at 7:15 tomorrow night but I am sort of probably free if you want to have a coffee. If not, it may be too much. You know what it may be too much. It's no there's no rush there's no rush. OK, um... with Marjorie? We had lunch... we had lunch on Monday and that was really nice at the MOMA. She's she's fun. We've been in correspondence. She's written about my work and I've written about hers and and, uh, certainly have read all her books but this is the first time we've met in the flesh. It's really good. In the contact. The lecture was very good very rich. OK. You're feeling better. Will do. It was wonderful. Nice to see you. Yeah yeah yeah yeah. OK, we will do. Do you know is there a men's room on this floor somewhere? OK. I'll go down. OK. Hey. Oh god after that is uh. Where do you go? How do you like it? I I study Aikido so that's... she goes to New York Sports Club. There's one on Reade St. and another on Christopher. Yeah. Who do you do yoga with. Uh huh. There you go. No it doesn't. No it doesn't I don't think it's... right right right. Roberta goes there. She told me she goes there. It's such a small world everywhere I mean, like, you know, the fact that I like went up here and knew that I'd know a bunch of people is not surprising. I think she's extremely rare. I don't know too many people who are promoting that type of work. You know, and that work is like long finished, you know, it was canned many many years, you know, like it became a movement and finished as a movement many years ago. Yeah, I'm so removed from academia, you know, that I the woman that I was talking to is really interesting the older woman with gray hair. I should have introduced you. Her name is Ulla Dydo. Yeah. That's what she does, yeah. No, she hates it. She hates academia. She's real yeah yeah. She's the person, yeah. You know, we've become like really good friends over the years you know I I really just adore her and she's another person, you know, loves art loves artists and loves experimental... you know she's one of the sort of seventies people. She really made the scene in the seventies I think, you know, like part of that real kind of downtown scene in the seventies like Kitchen scene, and also a very very serious scholar but independent. Yeah it's really nice. Johanna, sure I do, sure. He was just citing Marjorie was just citing Johanna and I was wondering does anybody here know who Johanna is? Did she say Johanna in the beginning? She said Johanna's last name? She said I think she was answering your question oh Johanna's work I was like oh I know... yeah right right. Johanna's also a friend of mine, you know, these are all people that I... She's nutty I mean I don't I like her visual work. I think they look good. I don't think they read particularly well. I mean I love her aca her academic books are OK. That's really really good yeah yeah yeah. Yeah she just put out A Century of Artists Books which was... Oh, it's, you know, I mean if you're into artists books it's it's a weird little corner of some weird world. He's a good writer. Oh she hasn't seen them?