Um, so, um I like all that stuff but I my main emphasis is really language and and language as sound. What? They are what what language are they in? I’d like to I would really like to work in Yiddish and I would really like to not know what it means. Um, I’d like to work it would be a good challenge for me because I’ve only worked only in uh, no I haven’t, I did some work in Greek. I did a big commission that was all in Greek. That was really fun. Hey, it wasn’t Greek to me, no it was really fun and and uh, that was really closer but I went to India and I wanted to do a big piece in Sanskrit but India was no place to kind of focus and work. That was very difficult. Um, but I learned I learned a little bit of Yiddish growing up, um, and that’s what we were taught we weren’t taught Hebrew we were taught Yiddish but I can’t remember I can remember two words of it or something right yeah. And of course I mean. Visually, um, visually also I’m interested in working with it. See, what I would like to do is get my hands on those books or, um, and and begin to construct um um um sound pieces by the way the words look. Now if the way the words look they’re probably gonna have if I can arrange things by the way they look they’re probably gonna have a sonic rhythm and sense to it as well. All the rhymes I work with if I didn’t know the language I could look at the ends of the words on anything that that that they would all sort of sound the same and they would have some kind of a, uh, some kind a thing using that content. And I usually don’t well I never ask what these things mean. At the Polish thing I never asked what it meant. To this day I don’t know and everybody always wants to tell me and sometimes people do tell me and, you know, but I I mean with this it was so close with these kids and everybody was telling me what they were giving me. If you guys are doing sound, uh, that won’t be a problem specific to me that’ll be a problem specific to every artist you work with. Right, I mean this is not this very non traditional. Yeah. Good good. Yeah no. That would not interest me. Well, you know, whatever whatever would be say if I was to do something and you guys this, you know, would hand me a bunch of xeroxes of these books and somebody could have gone through them and taken out, you know, I don’t care and. The recombination of words and this is what my whole work is based on is that there is a lack of intention and that meaning is constructed by the way by the way the number of syllables in a word and the way that the sounds ends. That’s why two phrases in my books live next to each other, not because I thought they had good meaning but because they were fallen in according to this system that I make. So now we may take something, you know, from that book it may be just a fragment, it may end up next to another fragment and then an unexpected meaning they may find offensive. But maybe that can be explained to them, um, in the beginning of, you know, of how of how the work was created. This book was like that it’s all, at the beginning, very short sounds based on, I think, air, ah, er, ear, or, these very related sounds. It goes into two syllables A to Z. Yeah. Oh, I don’t know. It’s some really kind of crazy reference book of sounds that I collected for three years that ended in. Well, I think you want, I think you’d want to it’s it really really really sounds fun, you know, um, it’s A to Z and they and they grow the syllables everything begins to grow, um, here is three syllables and actually it’s indexed. Right. Right exactly, you know, uh, this is, uh, 4 syllables and it grows to 7 syllables and they’re just separated by separated by commas. This is how I’ve been working for the last, you know, so so so something like Chestmen of America, chicks painted pink for Easter, Chestmen of America, that’s 7, chicks painted pink for Easter, there’s 7 and it’s c-h-e and then comes c-h-i. They were all, well, I mean there were things that I thought of, um, there are things people said to me. There’s things there’s things I’ve there’s things that I’ve read there’s bits from T.V. and then later of course it gets much much longer. This is 15 syllables. And so truly Allah made you in the image of Heather Locklear and the of course I was only really interested in the ear and the truly that’s fifteen syllables if you count that out and twenty years ago I crawled into a bottle of vodka, you know, so and it goes it goes, yeah, I don’t know where I forget I forget and so now it gets on to 43 later they get on to they get on to 100. Um, finally things getting much longer and ending up I believe 2737 syllables, at which point the whole thing kind of breaks apart and gets really crazy. So, um, language is meaning is determined by other things other than meaning, you know, and there’s always gonna be meaning there with language and so this is the kind of thing that I’m continuing to work with. Um, actually it’s all I mean you can take that if you want. Excuse me. Hello. Hey Ken, how ya doin’? Good, I’m just in a meeting. Can I call you back? Uh, yeah I can’t believe that. I’m gonna be away the Tuesday May 14 and Tuesday May 21st? OK? Let me call you back I wanted to talk to you about the links page as well. Bye. Um, yeah this this this sort of tells the whole story I mean you can contact my gallery for a bio. Uh, no no, Bravin Post Lee yeah, they’re down on they’re down on Mercer St. Let me just see if my tape’s running out. Yep. OK I’ve yeah I’ve I’ve tried tried not to keep I don’t I try not to keep these bio things around because my production is so scattered, um, it’s, you know, that this is, you know, this is something like this which, you know, ends up meaning as much to me as a, um, you know, a a show in the Jewish Museum, it’s all the sort of same to me so I let the gallery kind of kind of kinda keep up with that stuff but I think, you know, you should if you need information I there’s there’s just stacks and stacks of press over the years as well that they can that they can get you. No no no it’s it’s too I’m, um, I haven’t tried for grants because I know how hard they are to get these days. Um, and also I do, I mean I work, you know, I do I build web web sites and yeah I work for and I work for, um, oh this is great it’s so cool sure sure. Um, yeah so, you know, I mean I’m happy to, you know as a writer and a collector and sounds I don’t need the time I used to need when I was a visual artist, you know, kind of sanding or cutting or or coloring, um, I can you know I’m working right now just by talking and and listening. Yeah no it is and it gives it actually frees me up so I do I do I work for publishers and I build web sites as well. You guys wanna see? There’s a chair behind the dog you can just grab grab it. Did you guys say you want say you’re interested in a web site? Because you might think about one? Uh, have guys hung on the net at all who’s no yeah? no. Um, Granary Books they do artist’s books. Uh, that was something I I stole a, uh, something from the Merce Cunningham site yeah sure. Oh actually it should be... Um, this is a site I did for these guys, um, and we’re just local now we’re not we’re not live on line. Oh, wait a minute, why did that work that way? Excuse me, let me just change my preference here. What’s going on here? I did this for a job. Let me let me crack this other browser. Rearranging my preferences blah blah blah blah. This new one. OK, try this again. OK? So, um, actually you come into the site and you get this and then it comes up with his logo. And then you’ve got, um, a choice of all these different books that he’s done, sort of on the side here. Uh, they’re just I just created icons, yeah. This is clickable. Just a little bit from this book and he he wanted to remain mysterious like you don’t really know what it is. And then and then and then at the end you you find what you what you’ve looked at. Oh yeah, oh you are it’s really. And and these are these are just pages from books that he’s done. Sure sure sure. Sure of course. This is a very visual site I mean this is he he wanted it this way. It’s not a high information site, here is you click on that little t that was for text and here’s here’s all the hard information about everything and you can actually get to the books from here as well. Yeah yeah. This site came out really really well, um we also put up one one. Oh, I have a scanner yeah I scan everything, yeah. So here he put up an entire chapter of this Johanna Drucker book with with with footnotes which I love, you know. So yeah so this is you always always have the text. This is the mailto so you can just knock a composition right in, you know, and and send it right off to him. Um, and on and on. So, a more kind of conventional site would be... let’s merce.html. I I took these quotes they were these really beautiful quotes on on the web everything is available and you can lift everything so I I just simply by holding down and saving this image as you can take anything so I got these quotes. Uh, yeah yeah yeah. Yeah, but no I mean it’s Netscape is is both platforms, uh, let’s see OK another one is Sun & Moon, um, they are a very interesting press in Los Angeles. Yeah, I’ve got see all those books the same size yeah yeah. I think I called it home html. Right and this was actually meant to be viewed a little bit smaller and this is much more sort of sort of hard information you know this may throw us onto the web. Is it live? No. No great, we’re not live. Um, I I have these links in here that are sometimes live links so this is his new titles and and you just would sort of click on. Mark. You know him? Really? Where does he live? Yeah. So that’s really interesting, yeah. So here’s one of Mark’s books, yeah, and I I actually created this cover Douglas. Isn’t that isn’t that funny. Douglas just sent me a picture of the woodcut I just sort of laid this in and we’re waiting this is a new release that’s coming up on the web he claims for several novels. Isn’t that funny, yeah? So you should you should tell him I built this site I built this site for Douglas and, you know, it’s a great press I mean I just I mean I adore kind of, you know, what Douglas has done, I just think it’s great. So I mean this is a really hard information. Now these I are live, uh, these are all live, so let me see I wonder if these if these are live no these are local, uh, you can look at his his different reviews from the books, um. No, what did you catch. Where do you study English. Huh, oh are you a writer? Uh, this is Douglas wanted these titles these selected titles and they’re so great. Let’s see I wonder if there’s I think there’s another Mark on here? Nope. The Red Adam. I knew that was familiar and there it is. So, I design all the covers. Oh, I was just, where? Oh I was just Douglas sent me this text to put up. Yeah yeah yeah. No, that’s good. No that’s that’s that’s good. No I was I I get emailed the text and Douglas says I’ve got to go through it and do that I just lay it in I do whatever he, you know, whatever he gives me. So at any rate, this is the kind of thing that I’ve been that I’ve kind of been building. And there’s another one that’s, uh, I think this is kind of kind of, uh. Dialing. Yeah, sure, I’m sorry so. Oh it’s a cheap modem. Oh, it’s 129 dollar I I, you know, it work it does what it does, sure, it works really really well. So, OK, go on. Well, I’m I’m I’d love to and I, you know, I think the technical thing is is essential too, you know, I kind of think think that, um, how to how to. Well, it’s true there’s there’s there’s, you know, we can move move back here, um. Yeah, um, yeah I yeah no it all sounds interesting to me, um, you know I really love this place. No no really, I mean I told you that story on the phone I just walked by it with my wife we were in Chinatown oh man look at how good it looks and, you know, uh, yeah, it’s really yeah and any way that I could, uh, sure. It’s all this all fam you know it’s family my my grandparents are from the Lower East Side, you know, this there’s a lot of ghost around here. I mean we all moved out to the suburbs but my grandmother was born on 4th and D, you know, and now she’s buried in Cypress Hills Cemetery right near Schneerson, which is just wild, yeah. Yeah, oh it’s oh it’s wi have you ever seen his his tomb out there? It’s incredible. Um, it’s this big it’s this kind of big concrete thing and and it’s it’s yeah kind of like a mausoleum but it’s kind of open air and there’s the big trough, this big concrete trough in front of where he’s buried and there are all these people like praying and they’re scribbling like prayers on like little bits like scraps of paper like like like laundry like right like little laundry tickets they’re they’re they’re kind of put filling this trough up with prayers it’s really a big trough it’s really remarkable because it’s. Yeah, well I was Bar Mitzvahed at the, uh, wailing wall, yeah yeah. It’s a great idea a great idea. It’s meaningful because well it’s there’s just to finish quickly what they have is they have is this guy that comes and we saw this happen and there’s this sort of older guy and he collects everything and then they’ve got this old, um, cast iron stove in the back with a huge with a huge pipe with a huge tall pipe, right? And it and it, you know, as if as if it’s a direct connection to heaven you like yeah we’ll get it up there quick for you. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah, I’m sure maybe he got if from, I mean, this was after after she was buried and I was hanging out with my wife and my cousin and oh yeah let’s go see Schneerson. And it was really I I, um, no I didn’t didn’t feel feel that I mean it’s a really it’s holy place and people were, you know, it’s very serious. Yeah it was just like in India, you know, you go to these different temples where these different, you know, saints have lived and and, you know, there’s like really holy stuff and the guy evidently was I don’t know that much about him but he was a he was some sort of a saint to somebody to someone right and you feel it around there and the great thing is that they these guys the Hassid have bought the house nearest to it and they run electricity to it from outside right out they’re right out he he’s like buried here and then there’s like like maybe about thirty feet and there’s the wall or maybe more a hundred feet or something like that and then they bought the house adjacent to his tomb and you know he has like this huge busy street and they’ve run things into his thing so you can go there at night and stuff and there’s always somebody keeping an eye of the tomb I mean it’s very very spiritual experience. It was really really quite interesting. Makes sense. I didn’t know that. I mean we could just surmise I mean nobody told us anything. Yeah, well maybe maybe sort of a mix could happen maybe a mix of sort of past and present language could happen. And then kind of like what I’m also interested in doing is that doing some kind of a printout of the text, you know, that people can actually take with them. I’m I’m like, you know, addicted to making books and and, you know, the written thing is as important to me as, you know, the kind of sound thing that could happen as well. I have this font I think it’s called it’s it’s the one like that that makes Jewish it makes it look like Hebrew it looks like the Second Avenue Deli? Yeah yeah. I like the Jewish I love that one. I used it in a bunch of work that I a lot of these Jewish works that I show. That’s for you, yes, that’s for you and, um, yeah yeah if you guys I’m interested in in helping out in whatever way I can and also if you guys are interested in getting a site done I’m available for that. Tell Mark. Uh, uh, it depends really how deep you want to go and and also, you know, how big how big you want to go I mean something can be very done very simple very quickly something could be done very very complicated and could take a long time. It really it’s not an easy question to. Which one? Yours? Well I’m a I’m a natural collect I’m naturally a collector and a cate categorizer three three, you know, three years worth of collecting, so. But you’ll read about it. The article is all about this book and, you know, if you want I’ll just do a print out for you, it’s fun. It’s only 600 you’re not going to read the whole thing it’s impossible to read I mean you can’t read it start to finish. Alright, well, do be in touch. Do you have email, you personally? Well, I have I I maintain an AOL account. I I think I think they’re great. Why why don’t you give me yours and I’ll I’ll oh you have it on there, OK. Well, I’ll tell you also if you I can recommend a before you are set up in the office you should consider, um, you should sort of consider where you’re going to housing your site. In other words, don’t arbitrarily choose a provider because it could be it should be connected directly to that in terms of these things, you know, so you can give me a call or something, I don’t know who are you gonna. Awful? So yeah keep keep that. And have and tell Mark, who I don’t know and I have to his books are well one is one is there. These are all the books that were sent me. What was it The Red Adam and. I should keep this here because of the job but, um, you should tell tell him it’s interesting because Douglas says that the books that he sent me to put up first are like what he considers to be the most important books and these are? I don’t know I don’t know anything about them. Are they good?