What’s your name? Alex. OK. Good, now I know your name too. Hi. Sure don’t sure they’ll be happy to take it. Alex, do you want me to pay? What? I won’t. Mmmm, oh yeah, it’s so good. Boy, it’s a weird world out there, isn’t it? WAC list, word of mouth. How did we find out about it. It comes like three times a day, yeah, it’s insane. World Wide Web Artists Coalition. Have some bread, boy. Want some? That Knitting Factory scene was just really corporate. I didn’t like it. Did you? Oh, I didn’t like that guy Alex that we met. The guy with the beard. He was an asshole. Did, you know, he never heard of Alfred Jarry. He never heard of Pere Ubu. He goes Ubu? What’s that. Yeah, you know, he never heard of any of that any connection with anything like that. Yeah. They did. Thank you. This food is so good. The crap they were serving up at that place for twenty bucks a plate. That was idiotic. The people in there, you know, it was a really stupid scene. I really gotta pee. OK. Ah, that’s better. Is your chicken good? Tasty? No no no, it’s alright. You like this red chicken? Hey, you know, you can’t say we’re not trying, right? I know as if as if being successful artists and writers isn’t enough. Isn’t it just amazing like all the work that we do to do our work and then all the work that we do to like try to do our work? It’s insane, Cheryl, we’re working two jobs. Yeah, no, I mean work is OK, but, you know, it’s it’s just, you know, you do what you do. No wonder why we are so fucking exhausted every night and every day. Well, I mean, it’s insane. I don’t know how long we’ll keep it up for. It’s like a lot of artists, you know, well they kind of like paint like they get like Debra they get into their studios once a week or something like that, do think about it much. The fact is, we’re doing both things. See this is the cheese. This is paneer. This is what you eat in India all the fucking time. You had paneer? You’ve had it, right? Paneer this what you eat. You like eat shag paneer like constantly. You constantly eating like on a plane you get shag paneer. Somebody’s milk. I’m tired. I just need some down time I think, you know, like quiet time. When I when did he say that Cheryl? Oh, that’s so long ago. Halil? Liz Kotz was so nice last night. We have so much in common, it’s insane. She’s doing her dissertation. It’s funny, when you scratch the surface of people, man, everybody’s got something to say. I think everybody’s nice. You got to get past the surface. I mean whoever would have thought Liz Kotz was anything, you know, other than what she appears to be? Hardcore man-hater. She’s so nice. No, I didn’t get apprehensive. I mean afterwards I saw her I was like, oh there’s Liz Kotz, you know, and then she came up to me afterwards I came up to her or whatever we saw each other I’m like hi. She’s like very cold. She’s like hi, you’re Cheryl’s friend. And I’m like, yep. And she says I saw her show it looks really good. And then she looks at me and she says you’ve been doing what, like readings at the Ear, right? So like why couldn’t she have said you’re Kenny. You know, she obviously knew my name. So it was like it was gonna be too much to like give me that credit. You know, like, recog male recognition. But then she ends up like really loving everything that Marjorie was talking about. And Marjorie’s talk there was nobody mentioned except men, white men that were dead. DWM, as Marjorie says. So, you know, and and yet, you know, she’s studying Fluxus and experimental work from the sixties. She’d love to meet Dick Higgins. I mean, she’s really nice. We have a great talk. We talked the whole subway ride down. I knew all these people she wanted to meet. You know, they’re all my friends, you know? Ulla Dydo. I saw Ulla there last night, by the way, she was there too. Well she saw it in the paper. She said she went today. She was gonna be there this afternoon to see your show. No, we’ve lost touch with Ulla. She’s been really sick and I’m worried. She had like a bout of pneumonia or something. She was out for ten days and for a woman her age to have a bout of pneumonia she’s on antibiotics is not a good is really not a good thing. I’m worried. Who knows? She’s got to be 75 at least. She didn’t look so good either. She looked more wan than usual. But she was going to see your show and very excited. You’re such a neat eater. Look at the difference between our plates right now. You’re so like a pile here. You have like four grains of rice. You should see what’s going on over here. I love this. I’m a Goldsmith. So let’s just walk up and get Bets, what do you think? It’s a nice walk. I could use a little walk. It’s a male culture. Just like in India. There’s a lot of women but. Cheryl I know we’re traveling a bit but really, we gotta get our asses to India for a little while. Even if we only go for a month, you know, we keep talking about it so much. It’d be really really fun to just go. It would be fun if we could do it together. It’s like a a group at a a urinal the way they’re all standing up there. They’re busy, huh? I had two good meals today. Chinese soup and this. You didn’t have any other lunch? You heard New Age talk. What was he saying? Was he crazy? What was he to say? Yeah with lot of like weird gold picture frames... Was the other guy there as well? There was another guy. Do you want a tea? I’m gonna have a tea. We’ll take it and walk with it, OK? Alex, can I get one of those teas? You make me did you make me a tea last time? It’s not the salty one, right? It’s... it has like kind of milk in it but but there’s no salt. Yeah, you guys made me a really nice... can I have one to go and then I wanna pay you also. Yeah. You want one? Yeah. It’s weird, it’s a little different. You wanna try one? Yeah. You know what, we’ll have we’ll have two of those teas and we’ll take them to go. I actually like that about them. They were the most interesting of all the places because of that boy, I mean, they’re different, huh? I thought but yeah, I had good talk with them too on some not not way you did but. I thought I thought I remember feeling like like I like that part of them that they were, they seemed to have a different attitude and it would have been nice to work through them. OK, what do I owe you for everything? No sugar. OK. Two teas and a and a nan. Two teas, a nan, and two platters. Your food is so good here. You make the best food ever. It’s like home. It’s like coming home. We we get better food here than we do at home. And everyday there’s something new and different. I try something new. Last time we had the fish, remember? It was great. This this was the fish too, yeah. No sugar. No sugar. Just milk and we’ll take it to go. It used to feel like a lot of money. Not so much anymore. You know, a hundred bucks? It’s sad. It goes so fast now. Twenty dollars used to feel like a lot of money. Oh well here it’s fine this is this alright but remember, one hundred dollars used to buy so much twenty dollars. Not anymore. Cheryl, look at how good and fresh all all this food is. It’s so fresh. They do such a good job here. I’m convinced that this food is better that anything you get on Sixth Street. It really is. It’s much tastier. That’s right. I told him. So he says these these guys wanna quit their job when they see all these groovy people that go there. And what do they say? It’s crazy. Hey, we saw that your friend, the woman who used to work here now works across the street. She tried to get us to come there. We said we’re not we’re not going anywhere but the Pakistani Tea House. No seriously, she’s like come try this food. It’s different, though. It doesn’t look as good. It sounds like something Swami would say. Bad girl. Good boy. OK thanks, bye Alix, thank you for your help. See you again. See you again. Thank you. See you soon enough. They’re the nicest, oh my god, what a great place. People I I have thought ethnic people that serve food I’ve always said this, you know, are like the best people like they’re just in the service to please you they love to hear that their food is great. You know, they’re so appreciative when you tell them that their food is good they’re so appreciative, it’s it’s really uh, it’s really great. It’s like Juan y Laura before they got nasty. Oh they like well how about the lovely people at the uh, at the uh, Castillo. They were so remember the women that worked there and that guy, the proprietor with all the how how sort of proud he was of his establishment. I even liked the people at the Hung Hing, you know, it’s just like. Particularly with ethnic restaurants I, you know, I find, you know, people in fancier restaurants are just more professional and weird. Yeah I, well, they I mean they care but it’s different. What? With these guys it’s not about money it’s about love the ethnic restaurants I mean they really are happy so happy when you, you know, they’re just in it for appreciation they’re feeding people. The business is to feed people like that place we went into with the belly dancer their business their business, yeah yeah I mean they may do good food I’m not gonna say they’re not and there’s somebody who cares but it’s a very different reason for doing it. Yeah, I mean these guys are in, you know, giving great food for like next to nothing just to keep the community alive, you know? They’re not making any money there. Cause, you know, they’re certainly not doing any volume so as to make money. Church Street is sort of dead though, you know, like down here, what is there here, you know, a little bit, you know, it’s like all these it’s just corporate and weird. If if you just want to head home I’ll pick up Bets, you know, I could do that too. Alright. Whatever. As you wish. You know, really, I mean if you just want up at Grand turn off and go home that’s cool. Huh? Oh, you know what we’ll do on the way to, uh, your studio tomorrow we’ll stop at my office and we’ll pick up my book. I don’t really feel like dragging that thing, uh, around with me tonight, you know? It’s too heavy. Oh, look at The Knitting Factory, it’s over. That was kind of an amazing thing to see all those people, wasn’t it? I’m beat. The tea is really good. It’s like what you get in all the time. The tea in India is really exquisite. These guys brewing it on the street and they put a lot of sugar in it. You just think it was the best stuff you ever had. You think it would be? It is. It is. Oh, it’s so good with sugar in it. Is that right? Yeah, oh it is. It’s heavenly with sugar in it. I actually put sugar in my coffee in my tea the other night before I went out to FMU I was eating a meal and I had this chaia and, I don’t know, it was a rough day I had a long night ahead of me, I’m like, I really want this tea to be sweet. So I dumped three sugars into it. Don’t tell anyone. Is what goes on in here? What’s burlesque? Strippers? Why don’t the just call it strippers like this why don’t the just be honest about it like this like this place? Yeah, look at that. All these ancient paintings and stuff. It’s a rough business. Ah, look at this person how she’s dressed coming at us, this woman. That was Veronica Webb? Really? You sure? She looks like she’s going to dance at the Baby Doll. Think Veronica’s dancing tonight at the Baby Doll? Remember we used to come here when it was first when we first came to New York and it was... Industrial Chili? That’s a noisy group. Everybody’s out tonight. I haven’t been in there in a long time. Oh my God! What is that doing here?! That is amazing! Jesus Christ! He gets around. He gets around. I have no idea he gets around. He’s in my book. Lots of these they’re in my book. That’s interesting. I thought he never left Avenue A. Cool, look at that hat. Reminds me of your work. Is it a hat? Remember the Keith Boadwee the time we covered the car? Oh look at that. Somebody drew their matte knife. Sugar. It’s sitting right on the table. Go in. Just ask them. C’mon. No, you just put it... just ask them. We love your food. We come here. We used to come to your place on Canal Street also. I haven’t been there in a long time. That place was pretty good I remember. I remember liking it thinking we used to go all the time on Canal. We should try it one time again. I remember the chicken and rice was just excellent there. Funny I don’t go there. It caught on real heavy with the Gavin Brown crowd and I was always thought I was thinking that it was just gonna be too dopey and trendy. We kind of stayed away from it. She must be majorly insecure to pull that shit all with everyone. Uh, she was just caressing her and Claudia she was a little more hands off. Yeah, she’s a trip. She’s really insecure. What? Isn’t it interesting how nothing’s ever really come on come on this street. It seems like it would be perfect for galleries and what have you. It’s gonna be on Mercer, thought. I mean look at these places I mean they’re these I mean it’s weird that nothing’s really come into these joints yet, nothing commercial. Yeah. Do you think Andrea’s a trip? I like I like how she throws herself into things. No, I like her I really do, actually I think she’s like like really one of our good friends and and becoming more so, you know? She’s, uh, she’s becoming like our Alix in a weird way, you know. When Alix and us were tighter. I just I I really do like her and I I I can cut through the flattery stuff I mean, she’s bright, she’s, uh, ambitious, she’s interested, she’s lively, you know? I I I like her. I really do like her believe me, I don’t have much tolerance for people, as you well know, and she’s somebody who I can tolerate, you know, sort of over and over again. I like how enthusiastic she is, say with the cyber thing, you know? I think it’s... I’m no look... Oh, god, Charney Paper. That’s where I used to buy boxes for Allan. Sorry to see that they’re going out. One of the last few industrial people in this neighborhood. They were really nice there. God, I dealt with them for years. Huh, that’s where Eileen’s moving, huh? I thought that was really funny, you know, what Marjorie and Bruce said when they walked into into Suzanne McClelland’s show? They they they were both like we feel like it’s, you know, 1940 or 1945, you know, or 1950 in New York. We feel it’s like Arshile Gorky in here. Why are we looking at these paintings? They dismissed them immediately cause they just look so old fashioned. I was like look you guys there’s language in here. They couldn’t couldn’t be less interested. I I thought it was fresh. I couldn’t agree with them more. You know? And I like the fact that they wouldn’t even entertain it because it was, you know, old. They they cut right to the bone, I think. The artworld is is willing to be blinded, as you saw last night, my god! With that conservatism, is it any wonder Suzanne McClelland is a success? Yeah, Benjamin was OK, but I was wondering why Benjamin didn’t get up and piss on people. See? He was great. I liked his line but, you know, you didn’t even know he was there and I thought that’s a really really bad sign. Mmmm, look at this! All this old film and scripts. Wow! Wow this is pretty wild. Look at this. Air condition to post area. Voiceover breakdown. Oh, this is this is wonderful, huh? God, people, look at great installation. People have had a whole lot of fun with this. Videotape, audio tape, you... Jesus Christ! Here’s a here’s a a good old fashioned reel to reel tape. Amazing. Look at this, huh? Wow! Look at all this is non digital technology. Pretty amazing, isn’t it? Everybody’s just tossing it. This is all from Broadcast Arts. Those are the people that made the Pee Wee Herman Show. Right? This looks like a storage space for Broadcast Arts. Look at this Cheryl. Look at this professional videotape. You know what this thing must have cost? This is amazing, huh? You couldn’t use this, could you, huh? Look at the way this thing is constructed. It’s really beautiful. What year is this? Look at these big ten inch diskettes, which are old computer things. I love how the mess that everybody’s made here. Look at this, Cheryl. More. Just more and more and more. Whew! It’s it’s telling isn’t it? When it’s it’s all just put into onto memory now. Pretty telling, isn’t it? It’s really a different time. It’s kind of remarkable, isn’t it? It’s just a different time. Yeah yeah but I bet a lot of that stuff is being tossed because lots of it’s been transferred to computer. Yeah yeah. Yeah, it looked like a lot, yeah, maybe you’re right, maybe I’m being too romantic. I wish, you know, oh the days, oh those old analog days. I still love my old LPs. Hey I do too Mary, you know? Have you ever been in here? You know that’s a restaurant? Doesn’t it look closed? It’s been there forever. There were girls with high heels, there were girls with tight pants. Look at this bouncer all fancied up. It looks like something out of a Daumier, you know? He was dealing with the same exact issues like the like the sponge, the sponge crashing a wedding. That’s a Steve Kaplan comment. What is he famous for? Crashing our wedding. Yeah, it’s a depressing building. Remember we saw that kid’s art show in here? He sent that really mean letter to us? I know your work. I know all about you. Look at this. Something else is happening on the corner. Oh boy, never a dull moment on this fucking area, huh? It never stops. Let’s watch. Did I tell you, Cheryl, they repositioned our old friend in this building? The security guy from where the Art and Industry is now? You know that guy that sort of sweet but really annoying guard? He’s here now! I see him every day! And he says man, I’m gonna be here for a long time. This project will not be done for several years. So he says, it’s good to see ya! I’ll see ya every day! I’ve seen the guy, like, every single day. This is where, like, the J. Crew is opening. Yeah. But he said no he said no time soon. He was like, just when we’d thought we’d seen the last of that guy he he shows up again! He says it’s just slow and they’re building it from the ground up. I said, when’s this all gonna be done? He said oh, two or three years. He said they’ll have it done by like 98, but he said don’t count on it. He said, I’ll be here for a long, long time. And he’s always hanging out right in this doorway. I’m gonna start taking another route to work.