Less. I sense a I sense a smack of anti-semitism here. Because it's Jewish. It's how Jewish families, not mine, but many other families, function. Nobody listens everybody talks at once. Mine nobody listens, nobody talks. Cause I was saying no here's what was going on in mind. No, the talk is awful. See Bruce I I found my I can do that and the reason I can do that cause that's the way, that's what you do in a Jewish home. It's no coincidence that Marjorie, Charles, and I are Jewish. Unless you blow her away. With volume. You can with volume. Imagine imagine growing up in a Jewish home. I don't know we just are difference. You said instead you said like in your home it was just, you know, like people were ignored. But you guys talk and you listen I mean you have discussions. Your home is remarkable in that way. Cheryl grew up in a completely civilized linguistically environment. They have amazing discussions, the content is always great and everybody listens. No, it's very no, it's unique. I've never experienced anything like that. No wonder why you would find Marjorie disconcerting, Cheryl. You're used to being listened to at home. No you had no you had some bad bad rough moments but that was that was one of the better ones. Let's get some more. You guys wanna get some more? You wanna get a little more? Another quarter of a chick? Bruce? Yeah. Uh, why don't we have some white this time? OK, a quarter white and some hot sauce and Bruce would you do you want any more corn or anything? Should we get another corn to munch on? Yeah. What the heck. It's cheap and not only that Bruce, and not only that it's this is my treat cause you got me last time. Yeah, last time we were out. So eat, darling. Yeah. Yeah, last time we went out, last Sunday night you you guys picked up my dinner for me at the, uh, Chinese restaurant. I said next time is on me. I can see Charles nobody listened to Charles as a kid. I can see his family must have been fucking competitive and he was shut out completely. This week? They're all fucked up, man. Except for Iannis Xenakis cause he has no politics. He was a Communist and was thrown out of Romania in the resistance and sentenced to death. What politics? Then I went to Paris and I just started making music, yeah. His political content in my titles. That was I liked that actually it was very funny. From the concert? I saw these people here with the baby. I don't think so either. It was like Cybersuds. Bruce you missed Cybersuds. Cybersuds the great Internet networking party at The Knitting Factory on Thursday night. Ay why don't you move downtown sucker? Andrea was there is full form. Oh she said by the way that things did not work out with that guy. That, uh, Brian or that Daniel. Daniel Ben, right. Yes, yes. She wants to date guys. She should fuck Benjamin. You think he's gay? Oh. She's not. Benjamin's Benjamin's about our age. He was in the Whitney Program with Simon Leung and uh, Viv. No, they're all our age. No, no. Does he look older? She's a lesbian. So anyways you should have seen so Cybersuds. Alright, let me tell Bruce then I'll dovetail into into what happened. Uh, she said he was just really really, like, a downer, like everything was negative like his job really sucked and he was... Everything was a bummer Andrea said. Andrea probably started abusing him. Yeah, he's sort of like a failed actor. Yeah, he failed. At nineteen he blew it. Alright. East Village, yeah. He bought an apartment Daniel? Cheryl will you cut that thing in half for us? They went to Walkers. Cybersuds. But she liked that guy from iworld. Andrea? Couple of years. Five or six? Take a little take a little chicken, will ya? Take that take that. Bruce, you and I have been known, especially when we saw the man naked. No. This one lacks ambition he doesn't... Either the father is weak. To guys she can. She's mean, yeah. She lite. She's emotionally heavy, though. That's right, and gets self-obsessed with a world that doesn't care about the production of art. Homey homey's back. He's nice. I know. He was successful he was a successful quote published writer. Had several books out, articles. So, he wasn't a wimp. He's a professor, he goes to art colonies, he's got a good resume, so she thought, I like him. And I'm a male lesbian. Lots of surprises in store. You think she is gorgeous? A few years. Is that right? That was a joke. For a loser who's a sweetheart. She has nothing. The thing that she was so excited about the other night that we were probing her was that a very famous art dealer had trailed her for five years. It turns out it's a very well known art dealer married with two kids, no three kids, no he's got three or four now. Gavin's got more than two. Right. Of course we found out. What kind of question is that? It's been a whole week. Famous art dealer. Married married with children. No we tried to get them, yeah, that's right we tried to get them we tried to hook the two of them up, didn't we? She's pretty speedy. Well she was with Doug when we first met her but he's half a man. Marjorie. Marjorie was saying you're gonna you're gonna like this. Marjorie was saying that in front of Columbia in front of the class at Columbia she was talking about listening to children and listening to them understanding the meaning of language but no understanding the meaning of it. She's like she's like if I listen to my granddaughter and she will have she will know what a confrontation is and her mother say, you know, Sally we're having a confrontation though she doesn't really know what the word confrontation means, she knows it in the context -- this all applies to Wittgenstein -- and then she looks up at the class and it's funny what happens when you get older. You finally find time to listen. Marjorie's saying this. She said she said I raised two girls and I never even paid attention to their language and I was like oh my god these girls are just. I never paid attention to them now I've got I've got more time on my hands, I pay attention to the way my grandchildren are learning language, which I love. What's Carrie? Who's Carrie, her kid? What USC? Is she lousy? You know Bruce, it's funny, but Marjorie didn't like strike me as being any different than 9 out of 10 people I meet in the artworld for many years now. And that's why she doesn't particularly strike me as, like, odd or rude or anything no and Cheryl and I looked at each other and we said who does she remind you of and we came up with about six names. Well, not those. Is that right? Who's more like that? Charles? Collectors the whole deal, yeah. That's why I knew I knew how to play that one. Isn't she, Marjorie? She's pretty loaded, isn't she? Such as who? Give me an example of Juliana? Who's somebody I know that's like that? Ulla? Ulla's just so warm and friendly. Is that like many academics? Awful, there's a lot of meat on these bones. My wife is criticizing me. Do you have a coffee an an interesting coffee? I'll have a cafe con leche. A troika. Seriously, how did we do? So who do I know that's like that Bruce, a typical academic? Anemic academic. Bork? Bork. I hate Bork. Asshole. Asshole. Disses all my friends. You know this guy? Yeah. Yeah. He's mean, man, I've heard him dishing, yeah. Smugly dishing. Just the poets here the poets. You don't know him? Do you not like him? Is that right? Maybe, uh, maybe I'm getting him confused with someone else. Maybe I'm getting him confused with someone else. He's a friend of Nick's, isn't he Charles? How's Nick doing? As a writer? Were they embarrassed about Nick? A lovely guy. I don't know his work at all. That's like Marjorie, he's soft. Epistle to dippy. Hey you got a nice walk home, right across the park, huh? Nice nice stuff, huh? Very cool. Yeah from First Avenue all the way over across the park? That's a nice a nice shot. I'm jealous. I'm very jealous of Bruce? I'm jealous of... Look at that bag. Yo yo yo yard sale. See Marjorie would have loved that. She would have loved that that with her little she was wearing a red dress at the MOMA. She was a trip and a fucking half, man, that Marjorie, huh? Unbelievable. Glad I don't look like. She was Marjorie. Have you met her husband? Marjorie's husband? I bet the house is something else. She says she says oh I have a little bungalow in Pacific Palisades. Well, and all the money in the world is not gonna give her any better standing in the academic world. All the money in the world will not give her any better ac, uh, standing in academia. You were in a frat? Jesus Christ! You really must have you really must have fucking changed! Alright. Was it a gay thing? Were there fingers in anuses and things like that? Is that right? Seriously, why were you in a fraternity. What year was this? Even with an Vietnam War stuff going on there was no alternatives to frats? What did you, did you meet girls? Did you date before Sally? Did you date before Sally? Really. You were married, right? Who were you married to? Who are you Ulla you don't want to talk about when you broke down you were institutionalized for writing poetry? I hate him. Don't you? I I I can't stand him! Did she bring him Rowe? She would but it doesn't yeah. She's so competitive, yeah. Oh, this is your frat brother Rowe? Oh so he's younger too. Academic. Oh, like Marjorie isn't? I hate that guy. Yeah, Cage always told the story about he says to Guy Nearing or one of these mycologist idols it must be great to be in your field, uh, you know, you guys search for mushrooms and you look at plants and everybody's happy together. Not not like the musicians, you know, who who who are competitive and jealous and angry, right, competitive jealous and angry, you know, and and and and bitter. You know and John says, you know, like, uh, you know, John Smith, you guys must get along and the gets red in the face I hate his fucking guts! He did the worst work in in mycology, yeah, and I didn't, right right right. You mean at work or in her personality? Is that right? Oh, I like her stuff. She support you. Not many how many of these other academics? She loves you. No reason to con me. I like her because she's the only one who's doing what she's doing it seems to me. If there was more I always wish there was more people to read talking about language in this way but there's not so I love her work. She's no, you know, she's no, she's not a philosopher, she's not a big theorist either. She's report she's doing reportage and she could be doing even more... In the artworld that's all there is. Maybe that's why I like her. Pretty much, yeah. It seems it seems so... Who Marjorie and Rosalind on a panel? Yeah. Is he writing about you guys? And who's the one that hates... That was host of Whitney, uh, Whitney. Uh, Joseph Kosuth is about the grand is the first one of them. But I would never categorize a guy like Lawrence Weiner in with that who's much more of an artist and less of a, you know, theory kind of guy and less, yeah, of any kind of. I don't think Robert Barry's work is theoretical at all. No, I always thought it was much more whimsical and playful. Yeah, completely impoverished. Franz West. Oh, yeah he makes more appealing more appealing stuff. Sophie Calle. Oh yeah, I say Dan Graham. You will disagree with me. Dan's work is just real dry, so theoretical and so dry. It's just terrible. Yeah, but in the artworld the Whitney Cheryl knows him. Yeah, no that's better. Jannis Kounelis is kind of romantic and Mediterranean trying to be sort of quote poetic, you know, all about memory and... yeah, I did put it in quotes cause I didn't mean I think we mean a different thing poetic. Yeah, poetry of language poetry. Good chicken, huh? Thank you. Yeah. Wait up. Uh, it's ten of six. Some to pass. Pack her tip. I'd love to go rollerblading. Take Bets. You know, walk the dogs and. Could use some exercise. Alright babe. Ready? Hey, thanks for last week. It's a pleas. Alright. Alright alright alright. We malingered on the plank. I told this guy I said I'm working for presses I was in the elevator one day this guy overheard me said oh what presses do you work for and I said Hard Press and Hard Press and Left Hand Books and he said oh a couple of porno outfits. Yeah. Hard Press and Left Hand. Oh boy. Lingo, not lingua. Lingo. The place is great. You like that corn Cheryl? Ahhhh. Give him a peasant. That one girl with those weird eyes. She was like... I think they were I think they were a couple of, uh... I think they were a couple of peasants. What the fuck? A couple of peasants I think they were. I wonder where he got them? Must have went out to the country. Looking for peasants. You work is political, isn't it? In title anyway. What title? What politics? He was very funny. Right. He denied everything. That was very funny. That was good. I loved that. That was so funny. That was so funny. No, I, no no. How about Lukas Foss? Really. Lukas. Good thing it's not like that in the literary world. There's more freedom there. I mean I have one record of his. Yeah, no, I have one of him conducting The Brooklyn Philharmonic. Yeah, it's pretty good. Yeah, right, yeah. Yeah yeah yeah. Ah, so maybe I'll see you on Thursday, maybe I won't. Oh, Jesus Christ! Right, I'm gonna see you tomorrow. Jesus, I'm sick of you. Alright. OK, cause we're gonna walk down 86th grab the subway, yeah. Oh, we're at this is Lex. OK, so we're at the World Cafe. Columbus and 69th. Guess not. Uh, its sort of more more worlds to... sounds good. Alright. And I'm watching three dogs, yeah. You know they're staying at like the Sports Palace in Orlando or something like that. Oh but... We're going directly almost directly from from Greece to, uh, Vegas.